NYC Gazette

Congressman Goldman: “These police stations... [are] really designed to track Chinese dissidents or Chinese citizens in the United States, essentially as an unsanctioned police station.”  

Goldman: “Can you tell us... what the FBI understands about these police stations and the effort of the Chinese Government to intimidate and threaten Chinese, either citizens or dissidents, who are living in this country?” 

Washington, DC – Congressman Dan Goldman (NY-10) yesterday spoke about and questioned witnesses in a House Homeland Security Committee hearing about a Chinese Communist Party (CCP) “police station” in Manhattan’s Chinatown and the CCP's attempts to harass and intimidate Chinese-Americans and Chinese immigrants in America, as well CCP efforts to interfere in American elections.

The witnesses were Deputy Assistant Director of Counterintelligence for the Federal Bureau of Investigation Jill Murphy and Department of Homeland Security Acting Director for Nation State Threats in the Office of Intelligence and Analysis Tyrone Murphy.

VIDEO of the hearing is available here. 

A rush transcript of the hearing is available below: 

CONGRESSMAN DAN GOLDMAN: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Durham, I appreciated, very much, you saying in your opening statement that your comments are not directed at Chinese Americans or AAPI individuals who are in this country but at the Chinese Government.

And I have a district that is more than twenty percent AAPI, much of which is of Chinese descent, and the hateful rhetoric that has come from our former president and others over the last several years has led to a record increase in hate crime, especially against those of Chinese descent.

And I want to talk a little but about the distinction that you were drawing, which I think is an important one, particularly as it relates to the so-called “police stations” that the Chinese government has set up in various places around the world, including in our country. 

Ms. Murphy, I’m sure you are aware, and the Chairman referenced this case, the two arrests in my district of two Chinese nationals for operating one of these police stations, which, so everybody is clear, is really designed to track Chinese dissidents or Chinese citizens in the United States, essentially as an unsanctioned police station, so to speak.

Now I’m assuming, Ms. Murphy, you are not going to be able to speak much about that specific prosecution, but can you tell us more broadly, taking a step out of that prosecution, what the FBI understands about these police stations and the effort of the Chinese Government to intimidate and threaten Chinese, either citizens or dissidents, who are living in this country?

JILL MURPHY: Thank you for the question.

As I think the committee is aware, China goes through great lengths to control the narrative about the country of China.

And this is a way that they use influence and intimidation tactics against people that are in the United States that may have ties to China or views about China that the Chinese government doesn’t agree with.

And so, it doesn't just happen here in the United States, it happens in other countries too. We work proactively to identify and then investigate these instances, whether they’re identified as police stations or liaison bureaus. We also work with foreign partners when we find information to share with them, and they share back with us.

GOLDMAN: Can you describe some of the tactics that the Chinese Government uses?

MURPHY: Sure. I think on the same day that the arrests in New York happened we also announced an indictment against MPS. For using a -- 

GOLDMAN: Can you, sorry, what is MPS?

MURPHY: The Ministry of Public Security. I think it’s probably better for a classified session, but they use tactics such as harassment, threatening relatives oversees. They can act like they’re the arm of the government here. They use wide ranging intimidation tactics.

GOLDMAN: Mr. Kahangama, or Mr. Durham, I’m not sure if either one of you is the specific DHS witness to address this, but I wanted to ask a little bit about the Chinese governmental efforts to interfere in elections, both in this country as well as others, including Canada.

To the extent that you can talk about this in an unclassified setting, where do things stand with those efforts as we are moving forward toward 2024?

TYRONE DURHAM: Thank you for the question, Congressman, unfortunately I will not be able to talk about that in this session, but I’m more than willing to arrange a classified session with regard to that question.

GOLDMAN: I’m not surprised, but it is something that I think we are particularly concerned about, and I know the Foreign Influence Taskforce, FITF, was created in part to address the efforts of foreign entities to interfere in our elections, and to try to infiltrate national security. So, I do hope that we are all – you three and your agencies – are very much focused on this and making sure that our election infrastructure is as strong as it can be.

Original source can be found here.